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rachyw82
1st August 2010, 18:37
I have a second hand juwel rio 180 tank which has been running over a year now. I came home this afternoon and the lights hadn't come on (they're on a timer). I unplugged & plugged back in with & without the timer, the light flickered on for a second or 2 then all went off.

Does this mean a bulb has gone? I'm assuming so as if it were a fault with the unit it wouldn't flicker on.

I have no idea what the tubes are either to replace them! How do I tell, or would it be best just to replace the whole unit? I'm thinking the latter, as the tank was second hand and I dunno how long the unit & tubes have run for in the past.

Thanks in advance.

andieu
1st August 2010, 19:02
It would be an awful lot cheaper to replace the tube first. Then if it does turn out to be the lighting unit you'll have a spare tube for the future.
Google rio 180 lighting tube and loads of places will come up. I THINK the 180's take 45w tubes, but I'm not 100%.
Colour of the tube is up to you. What ever you prefer.

andieu
1st August 2010, 19:04
Thinking about it.. How many tubes are in your tank? If there's more than one (and there's only a problem with one tube ) and they're run off seperate units then you could try swapping the tubes round to prove if it's the unit or the tube.

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 19:26
Hi Andi,

Right, it's a Multilux light fitting (looked on Juwel website) with removable flaps where it sits across the top of the tank so it slides backwards & forwards. There are 2 bulbs, both are a bright white colour when they are on, so am assuming they are day tubes? Also, not sure hoe i would tell if its a bulb or light fitting peoblem by using your method, cos if it was either of these then surely the same thing would happen?? Sorry, I'm clueless with electrical stuff, other half has no intervention with my fish whatsoever, and I'm gutted cos I can't see my fish and the darkness means my plants are probably going to die!

I've messaged the guy I bought the tank off to see if he can help but not heard anything yet.

jessonthenet
1st August 2010, 20:08
usually if the tube has gone it will go really dim and flicker like waves going from one side to the other, this is how both my juwel tubes went in my rio 400 unit mine is a T8 lighting unit. I have currently replace with hagen glo tubes and they work fine. Both light are very unlikely to go at once if it is just the tubes. If the lights come on and off it could be a wiring fault or similar. Have you checked the fuse in the plug first. Could water have got into the unit itself even through too much condensation and shorted the lights as I have heard of this happening.

If you have still got a T8 unit you could just replace it with a up to date T5 unit instead.

paulacg
1st August 2010, 20:26
They are a bit prone to problems with the unit. If the bulbs had gone they wouldn't come on again. You could try taking the tubes out and checking the connections I guess as the seals could have gone if it's fairly old.

Paula

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 20:57
Thanks for the help so far guys.

This is going to sound soooooo stupid, but how do I tell if it's a T5 or T8 unit?!

I've never had any probs with it before, but it's second hand and for some reason there's always been duct tape around the seals where the tubes fit in, so perhaps there's been a problem before? I'm going to investigate my unit a bit more as I sound sooooo silly not knowing the basics!

angellover
1st August 2010, 21:11
does it not say the wattage and what not on the tube or does it have a starter motor thingy (a external box with a button on that geets warm) it may say the wattage on there?(usually on t8 units),t5 lighting tubes are quite alot skinnier than a prit stick and a t8 is about the same size

oh lord the duck tape sounds a bit dodgie i personally would replace it if you are leaving it on when you are out

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 21:34
Ok I've managed to get this info off the unit:

Aquarium Light Multilux GB
1a 25 / 50HZ / 240 / 2x 30W / GB

And this info off the lamps:

YZ - 30W D-HG

I took the duct tape off and unscrewed the seals and there was no water that had got in. I tightened it all back up and laid it flat on the floor to test what goes on when switched on. This is what happened the 3 times I tested:

Plugged unit in, one lamp comes on first but flickers for about 2 seconds, then second light comes fully on, flickering stops but then after a further 2 seconds both lights go off.

Am I right in thinking that this is a unit fault as opposed to a bulb gone out, or should I still try replacing the bulbs first?

andieu
1st August 2010, 21:35
Duct tape on the seals? Doesn't sound ideal around water!

And my method. Of proving if a tube had blown works of only one tube wasn't working.
You have 2 tubes, right. Ok. Pretend one tube is your kitchen lightbulb and the other tube is your lounge light bulb. If the light won't come on in the kitchen but it does come on in the lounge, you know that the bulb in the lounge is fine. If you take it from the lounge and plug it into the kitchen light and it works you'll know that the light fitting in the kitchen is fine. If the lounge lightbulb that works in the lounge doesn't work in the kitchen then it has to be a problem with the fitting.

So on your tank, if only one bulb has gone but the other is fine, swap 'em over and see if the bulb that wasn't working in working on the other side.

However. If both the bulbs are not working suddenly then I would say it's most likely a problem with the unit so it would be best to replace the whole thing.

Hope that makes more sense!!! :)

andieu
1st August 2010, 21:37
When you put the lights back in make sure you don't twist the tubes at all when you do up the end caps. This can cause the connection to fail and the light not to work. Could be that?

andieu
1st August 2010, 21:42
Ok. Just read your last post. We cross posted.
I would get 2 new bulbs reading what you've written about them flickering. Try the bulbs and if they still don't work, buy a new lighting unit.

When I've had flourescent bulbs go before (not on tanks) they have still flickered. I've trotted off to b&q to get a starter and then find out it's the bulb.

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 21:44
However. If both the bulbs are not working suddenly then I would say it's most likely a problem with the unit so it would be best to replace the whole thing.

Hope that makes more sense!!! :)

Andi, thanks, I'm poorly and my brain won't work!!

From your explanation and my description in the post above yours, it seems like a unit fault then, cos BOTH lamps definitely come on for a few seconds (the one with the duct tape around it flickered), then they both go off. So it isn't a bulb problem.

And I think from Angel lovers post, I have T8 lighting.

So if you agree with my theories, I need to get on fleabay or some good aquatic website tomorrow and order myself a cometely new t8 unit to fit the rio 180 with day bulbs.

Sound about right?

EDIT: sorry Andi, cross posted again!!!! I'll try the bulbs first!!!! Thanks!!!

jaywickrob
1st August 2010, 21:48
I've not read the thread all that thoroughly, so forgive me if i repeat someone else.

When a tube went on my Juwel Rio it killed both lights, the lights flickered for a few seconds when they were turned on, but not continuously. Replacing the faulty tube corrected the problem, so just buy one tube to check if it is the tubes or not. The lighting unit is sealed and if that's gone you'll need to replace it completely.

kazzie
1st August 2010, 21:51
Oooh I agree with Andi duct tape on the seals doesn't sound good. Juwel recommend thet the seals / end caps are replaced whenever you change the tubes. (HMMMM) Well I suspect thet the previous owner hasn't used juwel tubes or hasn't replaced the end seals and there has been some water ingress, hense the duct tape.
Hopefully it is just the tubes that are faulty.
From the info you gave it sounds like the unit is a T8 unit like this......
Juwel light bar for rio 180 (http://www.urmstonaquatics.com/index.php?app=gbu0&ns=prodshow&ref=100cmLU&sid=hy1sx1020385877w0x6y67s40n802ic6&portrelay=1)
Juwel standard bulbs for this unit are 30w and they are normally a WarmLite and a DayLite combo.
If it is the light bar that is faulty and you have to buy new you could always upgrade to a T5 light bar, more expensive but more WPG and better for your plants :)

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 21:56
Thanks all.

I'll leave it there for now then and try a new tube, I'll replace the seals also just in case and report back on progress.

Thanks again.

andieu
1st August 2010, 21:59
I'm in agreement with Jaywickrob because it does seem unlikely that both tubes would 'blow' at the same time. If you order 2 then you'll have a spare for the next time one blows,or you could put them both on so you know the
output for your lights is at it's highest if the current tubes are old.
Or if money is tight then order one as that is most likely to fix the problem.

Let us know what solves the problem. :)

proffads
1st August 2010, 22:16
Have you changed the tubes about every year as you are meant to? Even if they are still working the tubes do get less bright over time. You see them daily so don't notice this until you fit new. Normally I would say that it is unlikly for two tubes to go at the same time BUT with a second hand unit and if you have not changed tubes at all then they could be v old. When the tube is removed you will see it is darker nearer to the fittings than in the centre, showing wear.

Try andieu's method for testing the tubes. The duct tape will most likely have been put on to help the connectors to stay in place and connect with the prongs on the tube ends. With use they slip back a little over time.

When you have slotted the prongs into the connectors, do you gently ease them as far back as possible? Otherwise you don't actually make a connection. I'm not meaning to be patronising so sos if that sounds it - I recently had a v sharp learning curve about these lights myself.

Unless cash is no problem I would try to just replace tubes which will cost roughly about 10.00 each (ballpark figure only). A new Multilux, depending upon how old the tank is i.e. are they readily available can be about 80.00.+ E.g. I shopped around online but ended up paying 110.00 for a 2 x T8 tube (included) multilux for a Juwel 122 cm long tank that has not been made for over 10 years. Btw I got this cheaper from a Manchester supplier (pm me for the name if interested) than Juwel themselves quoted.

Regarding T8 v T5 tubes, T5's are relatively new so you would only have T5's if you had changed to these. If you wish to trade up to T5's you will need a new Multilux as you can't just get T5 tubes and clips and put them into the T8 Multilux - good money spinner that!

When there are two tubes, if you wish to grow plants, it is usual to have a Warm lite tube in the front and a Day lite tube in the rear. Juwel make all their own tubes but you can get some stockists that have other makes that are compatable and cheaper.

I hope this helps and has not just confused you even more!:D

rachyw82
1st August 2010, 22:26
Thanks proffads, that was very helpful.

The tube that flickers has gone a black colour at the ends as you have described, so it could well be the bulb. I have an aquatic store near my work that stock the juwel tubes so I will pay a visit tomorrow.

As for plants, I have bog standard stuff like elodea & Cabomba that have always grown like crazy, so I'm not too fussed what type of lighting to use, but the tubes I have look the same colour as the day ones on the juwel website so I'll stick to what I know.

Thanks again.

jaywickrob
1st August 2010, 22:38
A Juwel tube will cost around £28 from an aquatic store, I suggest you look on-line or try Edmonson Electrical they are sure to have a branch near you. Take your tube in and ask them to match it, they'll probably supply you with a tube for a fraction of the cost of a retailer.

jessonthenet
1st August 2010, 23:20
If the unit is to blame you might be able to get a second hand T8 unit off ebay really cheap because many people are upgrading there lighting to T5. I have a rio 400 and a new T5 unit would cost me £99 that doesn't include the tubes a new T8 unit would be cheaper.

If money is tight and you don't need to keep plants alive then a second hand T8 unit is the way to go preferably local so you can pick up and test it first.


My juwel tubes I had were a day and a warm but the replacement hagen ones fit ok and new seal caps are really cheap to buy basically it is what makes the lighting unit water tight lol.

avangels
2nd August 2010, 04:02
A Juwel tube will cost around 28 from an aquatic store, I suggest you look on-line or try Edmonson Electrical they are sure to have a branch near you. Take your tube in and ask them to match it, they'll probably supply you with a tube for a fraction of the cost of a retailer.

thats a good tip Rob thanks i have one less than a mile from me and i have had my vision 180 for 10 months so the bulbs will need replacing soon.

kazzie
2nd August 2010, 10:26
thats a good tip Rob thanks i have one less than a mile from me and i have had my vision 180 for 10 months so the bulbs will need replacing soon.

It's a great idea, I can pick up tubes that will fit my Juwel tank from Tesco for 3 - 4 each . Apparently (I was told) the light spectrum is different so might not be great for the plants, However it could be the way to go if you are just checking the unit and a cheap tube is all that is required.
Juwel T8 tubes for that tank are about a tenner from my LFS and the T5's are approx the price that Jay quoted.

richtea78
2nd August 2010, 15:09
Its recommended that you change the bulbs every 6 months I think as well as the light output drops significantly over time, I believe that its the not visible part of the spectrum so they still look bright but they dont allow the plants to grow.

However typing this I am now minded to think this could well be a nice money spinner by the companies, but I still plan to change mine in a few months anyway.

paulacg
2nd August 2010, 17:10
I'd had my Juwel 54w t5s for about 18 months before I decided to replace them because I too was sceptical. The difference was massive and all the plants are pearling away happily now. So I replaced the aqua one 38w ones that had been going 8 months with some Acadia ones and again, much better. No point if you dony have plants though.

Paula

rachyw82
2nd August 2010, 17:42
Right guys, I think I know what the duct tape was for!

Got a compatible Arcadia Classica daylight tube from the lfs near my work and tried it with one of the old tubes. Same thing happened. So I left the new tube in and started to unscrew the end caps to swap the old tube for the other old one, and I found the tube was not secured into the ballast, and that the silver end of the tube had come loose! I put the other tube in and it STILL wouldn't work! Well, it kept coming on & off, so I assumed it waszloose wires. But, I realised the duct tape may have been to secure the tube into the ballast if it had come loose, so I made sure the tube was pushed fully into the ballast, held it in with light pressure and screwed the end cap on. Hey presto, lights are back on! Obviously the ballast is a little loose, so I'll just pop some more duct tape around the end caps to hold the tube in place.

Hope that makes sense what happened?!

andieu
2nd August 2010, 18:06
Glad it's sorted.
And another example in my belief that if you can't fix it with gaffer tape (duct tape) then it's not worth fixing. I used to drive a vw beetle who's passenger door was held on with gaffer tape :)

jaywickrob
2nd August 2010, 19:09
Glad it's sorted.
And another example in my belief that if you can't fix it with gaffer tape (duct tape) then it's not worth fixing. I used to drive a vw beetle who's passenger door was held on with gaffer tape :)

Was it pink?

andieu
2nd August 2010, 19:29
Was it pink?

The car or the tape? :p

richtea78
2nd August 2010, 20:37
Glad it's sorted.
And another example in my belief that if you can't fix it with gaffer tape (duct tape) then it's not worth fixing. I used to drive a vw beetle who's passenger door was held on with gaffer tape :)


Women are allowed to drive now? How do you get out of the kitchen? :D

andieu
3rd August 2010, 02:36
Women are allowed to drive now? How do you get out of the kitchen? :D

I only used it to go get the weekly shop. :)

Miss Pennyapple
4th August 2010, 17:02
Does this help Rachy?

http://www.juwel-aquarium.de/data/Pdf/gbw/en/Rio_180.pdf

Not sure if you have the manuel or not, but it included lighting information.

Nice to see you back. :)

dowheim
12th September 2010, 19:43
I had the same light unit as you have but on the Rio125, I had it new, After 2 years of ownership my bulbs went, I replaced them, A year after that my whole unit went, its a sealed casing so i couldnt repair (easily) so i was forced to replace for about 65. Juwel Lighting Systems are terrible for reliability. Interestingly my light unit broke when I had it on a timer but has been ok without a timer, Possible something to do with that or maybe just coincidense?

Ive also had to replace my Filter Pump 3 Times in 4 Years, Juwel Tanks and Stands are great but their electronics are poor!